Oct 28 Dennis Jones – History Of Fighting in England

This interview was conducted in May 2004

Steve Rowe talks to Shi Kon Martial Artist and Doorman Dennis Jones

SR  There seems to be a lot of interest in ‘street fighting’ at the moment, long discussions between all types of martial artists, so my question to you as an experienced martial artist and doorman Dennis, has to be “what is street fighting”?

DJ  That’s an interesting question Steve, when I was young, I was brought up in a military environment.  My first encounter with the term ‘street fighting’ was listening to my father and his friends talking about moving through an urban area engaging the enemy street to street and house to house – back in those days a lot of the older men had seen active service.

SR  To us ‘civvies’ street fighting means defending ourselves against thugs by whatever means necessary.

DJ  That’s right!  So where there is ‘real deep fear’ with the risk of serious injury or death, whether it is military or civilian, we have to develop a strategy to deal with it. The word “martial” intimates military and martial arts and military training have gone hand in hand here in England and in America since the beginning of the last century!

Lets look at some of the history of fighting tactics in England.  At the beginning of the Second World War the army brought back two English police officers, who were self defence experts, from Shanghai. On their arrival they were both commissioned into the British army with the rank of captain.  They were Fairbairn and Sykes who later developed the renowned commando knife, which still bears their name.  They came back from China with a ‘rough – house’ method of ‘all – in fighting’ that had been tried and tested on the streets of Shanghai.  With their riot squad unit they had innumerable unarmed encounters and had 650 close quarter encounters using handguns.  They developed the concept of ‘point and shoot’ or ‘instinctive shooting’, refining their skills against the many armed criminal gangs that infested Shanghai at that time.  Based on these experiences, they developed the first training ‘killing house’ a house modeled on a typical chinese drugs den.  The training was realistic… based on real life scenarios and emotions.  This method of realistic “role playing” is still used today by Special Forces across the world.

 By early 1942 Fairbairn was organising combat training in America.  It was here that he met a 28-year-old officer, 2nd Lt Rex Applegate.  Applegate was ordered to attack Fairbairn – it’s important to remember that this was during the war years, people were fighting and dying, so nobody had any time for silly games or ‘make believe’ techniques. 

Applegate roared and went for Fairbairn who then promptly launched the youngster into the air!… a very difficult thing to do considering that Applegate was less than half his age, 8 inches taller and 70lbs heavier!

Fairbairn had trained at the Kodokan and also under ‘Tsai Ching Tung’ who was an instructor in chinese boxing and had trained the retainers of the last dowager empress of China.  Applegate was trained by Fairbairn and went on to train the American Intelligence Services, and President Roosevelts bodyguards in close quarter combat techniques and was author of what was considered to be the bible of CQB “Kill or be Killed”.  He sadly passed away in 1998 aged 87yrs.

EJ Harrison was teaching judo/jujitsu by this time having trained in Japan in the early part of the century.  He was the author of the book ‘The Fighting Spirit of Japan’ First published in 1913, a most interesting read, note that the title is about the “spirit” Harrison making the point that spirit comes before technique.

Yukio Tani and Raku Uyenish the two jujitsu adepts had from 1900 onwards, toured the Great Britain Music Halls fighting wrestlers in every town.  In those days there were a number of different ways or styles of wrestling based on the rules that were used, with Lancashire being considered the most barbarous, allowing blows with the bare fist.  These “feisty little Japs” as they were called managed to hold their own with all comers!

Percy Longhurst was writing books on jujitsu at the time and although not sure of the art at first, his opinion turned to sound respect after watching Tani’s bouts and he helped to make it popular during the 30’s. 

The point is that fighting has always been in the English blood.  The people of this island had a ‘natural fighting spirit’ and had a large empire to prove it!  We have always been able to integrate the skills of other nations and recognize kindred fighting spirit when we see it.

SR  The 20^th century was significant though, I’ve seen significant changes in my lifetime….

DJ  Prior to the second world war, the English way of ‘fighting fair’ was to put your fists up and punch like a boxer with a bit of wrestling. With the advent of the WW2, we had to change our way of thinking to what was called ‘dirty tactics’, these would include biting, gouging, stamping, kicking, use of weapons and so on, even my father, who was in the SAS, would call them that.  For people of that generation, there was a distinction between ‘fair’ and ‘dirty’ fighting.

 In the book ‘All – In Fighting’ written during Second World War, it shows a German soldier pointing a Luger pistol at a British soldier, taking him prisoner.  It then tells the reader that if he used the technique shown, he would stand a two to one chance of success! Failure no doubt would be fatal, but apart from the slight ‘gun’ problem, it just tells the readers to have a go despite the possible the consequences.  What is interesting, is the mind set of that generation – they were ‘combat hardened’.

 So, street fighting today is what we’d have called in those days ‘dirty fighting’, fighting without boundaries.  A close friend of mine once said that the difference between winning and losing was a ‘hairs breadth’ and that you had to do (especially if you were morally right) whatever was necessary to win, even if it meant using a weapon!

SR I can remember in the ‘50’s and even the ‘60’s normal people didn’t kick in a fight, maybe the ‘Teddy Boys’ in the ‘50’s did and they also used razor blades, but they were despised by normal people.  When Karate was first introduced into the UK in the ‘60’s older people often called it ‘dirty Jap fighting’.

DJ  Well I’m not as old as you Steve (laughs) but I first knew about Karate in 1970 and I can understand it being related to ‘dirty fighting’ simply because Karate people kicked.  By ’81, I had moved away from traditional karate and had focused on street fighting, so I wasn’t constrained.  I simply focused on what worked. When a problem arose, I could solve it without having to resort to a “code” from a style – my mind was almost ‘zenic’ – free to work without constraint. 

For the last 23 years I have been cross training and using whatever worked. I made mistakes and learned from them! But luckily I’ve survived… Many martial artists have said that luck shouldn’t play any part in fighting,  but if someone throws a bottle at you or tries to ram a glass in your face, you haven’t seen it and it misses you, that’s luck!

I had no ‘style’.  I did whatever I had to win.  Many people were telling me to do boxing to learn punching, taekwondo to learn kicking, judo to learn grappling and so on.  But I think the problem was that out of all that training and it’s innumerable techniques, only a small proportion of each art would be helpful to me out in the street!  I couldn’t afford the time to do the rest and certainly didn’t want to learn any ‘bad’ habits for the street that might get me hurt, I needed to know what people did when they were ‘having it out for real’ and the best method for me to deal with it.

SR  I’d say, to a ‘proper’ martial artist, there are no techniques, only principles.  If you think in techniques, you will surely lose – think in principles, you are unlimited.  Techniques are merely expressions of the principles.

 DJ  Yeah, that’s my thinking as well.  Everything I practice is to do with a situation that I’ve either been in or seen happen, so nothing is wasted.  I’d get feedback from my friends and other doormen, I’d watch what I did on the CCTV and was then able to find methods of improving it.  Most importantly I’d try to analyse my reactions to fear and anger.

 I met many martial artists who told me that their style was effective and was good for street fighting, I’d listen patiently and nod my head, because they were entitled to say and think whatever they wanted.  But virtually all of what they said was just theory, had no substance and I could tell by the way they talked, that most of them had little experience.

I could always tell whether they knew anything by the descriptions they gave, of their feelings just before the fight. I suppose that was my gauge, how they felt told me everything, I know as individuals we are all different, but when it all boils down to raw emotions we’re all the same!

Not so long ago I was having a conversation with a well known fighter and he was telling me about one of the ‘situations’ that he had been involved in, going through everything he felt and what the other people were doing and feeling.  He paused, looked at me and said “… there’s no point telling you what I mean Den, you know what I mean!” and as far as I was concerned Steve that comment was a compliment. 

SR  Because he knew you understood!  I think we’d better pause there and finish this interesting conversation in next month’s issue.  Thank you Dennis…

DJ  Thank you Steve.

Steve Rowe

Steve Rowe is a highly successful Martial Arts instructor - an International Neigong, Qigong and Tai Chi Teacher and an 8th Dan Karate with many other senior dan grades in other martial disciplines.

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