Oct 25 Dennis Jones – The Art Of Punching

This interview was conducted in April 2004

Steve Rowe talks to Doorman and Shi Kon Martial Artist Dennis Jones…

SR  Dennis, when I  first interviewed you back in 2002, I can remember that afterwards we had a long discussion about punching. During the conversation you mentioned softness a number of times and yet the effect of your punching is incredibly hard.  I thought that this would make an interesting subject for the readers…

DJ  I think I’d have to go back to when I first started boxing at the age of 15 we used to do what was termed “schoolboy boxing” with a sort of hop in of the lead leg for the jab, cross and hook.  We would literally just try and hit the punchbag as hard as we could and then get into the sparring.

When I started Karate, we would practise the standard “corkscrew” chudan tsuki in Sanchin Dachi stance for thousands of repetitions, being told that we would be powerful like Oyama.  Apart from the class sessions I was practising an additional thousand punches each day.  I also worked hard on the makiwara but couldn’t get anything out of it apart from “conditioned knuckles”.  One day I was sparring with an older guy that I also knew from boxing and we were going in quite heavily when I naturally “curved” a punch into his ribs that stopped him in his tracks.  My Instructor came over and told me off for punching in that manner and informed me that I would never get any power that way!  The older guy was bent over double and gasping for breath.  The Instructor must have though that he was unfit and needed a breather.  Anyway, I later discovered that I had actually broken one of his ribs.  I now realise that I wasted 5 years of my training time listening to someone who had no experience of real fighting or hitting whatsoever!

If I did a Karate style punch on a wall I could hit it and make the wall shudder, but if I really hit it like I would hit someone in a fight, I’d break the bones in my hand!  What I did get from Karate is that to this day I still hit with “seiken” (the first two knuckles).  My punches, for the last two decades have come off a curve.  Even the punches that appear to be straight – still come off a curve.

SR  The irony of that Dennis is we actually punch in an very similar way.  We have each researched on our own paths for 30 years plus and still both found a similar method.  I see the traditional Karate punch as punching “off a curve” – it has the weight transfer from foot to foot, the rotation of the body, the opening and closing of chest and back, the elasticity of holding back the waist, the vibration of hips, the spiralling action of the arm and the hammering and screwing action of the wrist.  We both use the principles of opposite force through the feet, the postural alignment of the body, the use of the breath and awareness and focus of the mind.

If you look at Newtons laws of motion, when you spin the body, the arm wants to fly out to the side, (this is how an untrained person will naturally punch) we have to hold it in to the body to be able to punch off that curve.  It depends how much you hold it in as to which curve will release the punch in a straight line!

You use all those ideas and principles when you hit, I adapted them from the traditional methods.  Two different routes……  same conclusions eh?

DJ  I guess when you look at it, we’re all human, and our bodies work in the same way.  By the time I was 23, I was chopping the necks off free standing beer bottles, I was breaking 3 x 1 inch pine boards hanging on a string with a straight punch, I was breaking baseball bats with my shins, I was recreating all the speed and power breaks of the “Masters” and yet when I had a problem…

Back in 1981 I was working at a nightclub as a doorman when this guy decided to start throwing beer mugs at the DJ,  (I don’t think he liked the music) I ended up talking to him in the foyer.  There was only myself and another bouncer on that night and he was working inside the club. The guy was still aggressive, he was high, having just had just had a “result” (in terrifying everyone) and was holding a pint mug in his hand.  I hit him with a punch, using a long stance that should have knocked him clean out.  I broke his jaw, but still only got a “technical knock out”… I expected so much more!

My punches are now more like “cuts”, you could liken them to how you use a Japanese sword, they aim to “poleaxe” the opponent, pulling slightly back in toward my own body.  I can see how your studies have brought you to a similar conclusion as me, but I honestly believe Steve, that most Karateka are still using the same kind of system that I was taught, not realising that it won’t work so well in the street!  You think that if you have the power to break bricks, boards and beer bottles, that you will break bones, it just doesn’t work that way!

SR  What about Boxers?

DJ  I’ve watched Boxers street fight and to take nothing away from their skill in the ring, it just isn’t the same in the street.  Take away the referee, the rules and especially the gloves and it’s a different ball game.

I use grappling, and the melee of a fight to find a window in which I can exploit the art of hitting off a curve, often weapons (usually a bottle or a glass) are in there somewhere, and it’s natural to reach out and grab the arm with the weapon and use the situation to create the angle to hit with the other arm.  Often I use pulling, pushing, twisting, walking, and switching step or pace to turn and find the angle that I need, these are the skills that I have just started to understand and now teach.  They are far more appropriate for Conflict Management than the old fashioned one, three and five step sparring techniques still taught in so many clubs today.

Important components in a fight are not just how you get your power, but also where you hit the opponent and how they are standing at the time.  You have to develop an “intuitive feel” for these things through a form of “live” practise.  And the most important, Steve, is the “heart” for a fight.

SR  I’ve found that if you prepare your students for a fight using real techniques in training and create the “atmosphere” of a live situation, it helps develop their “heart” for a real encounter.

DJ  The point is that there are still far too many people convinced that what they are learning can be adapted for the street.  Take it from me, that without realistic training from someone that’s been there, it can’t.  Much of your training Steve has come from “live” experience, the great thing is that you work consistently with people that are out there doing it, so what you teach isn’t “dumbed down” into some type of fantasy street fighting.

SR  Moving over distance, getting in close, shifting your body weight, shifting their body weight, these are things that many martial artists have problems with,.  What do you think Dennis?

DJ  When I “lamped” the guy with the pint mug I went into a forward leaning stance.  That was a big mistake.  I know I broke his jaw (a few months later the guy told me that he spent weeks drinking soup through a straw), but I would have had a better effect if I had leaped in keeping my legs closer together.  I did it the way I did because of the type of training I was doing at the time.

All the traditional arts lay great importance on the position of the back leg, but most of them end up with a back leg that impedes their movement. 

Follow the natural movement of you body…..  when you run, do you think about where your legs are at any one moment?

I’ll finish with this story, a old friend of mine, I’ll call him Rob, was hitting a punchbag quite hard and “dragging” his hand back (because he was training for when he also had a weapon in that hand) I was watching him with another guy I’ll call Peter.  Peter said to me that he could hit the bag harder than Rob and yet Rob had a reputation as a fighter…

I said to Peter that when Rob hits the bag, I’d score him say, 6 out of 10,  and when you hit the bag Peter, I’ll give you 8 out of 10.  In a real live fight situation, Rob would still be hitting 6 out of 10 and you’ll probably only hit 2 or 3……. And that’s the difference.

SR  That’s interesting Dennis, I guess the point is that there’s far more to fighting than just hitting hard. That’s a good story to emphasise the key points between fighting and training, thank you.

DJ  Thank you Steve.

Steve Rowe

Steve Rowe is a highly successful Martial Arts instructor - an International Neigong, Qigong and Tai Chi Teacher and an 8th Dan Karate with many other senior dan grades in other martial disciplines.

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