Nov 12 Dennis Jones – The Law and Self Defence..

This interview was conducted in March 2005..

Steve Rowe talks with Doorman and Shi Kon martial artist Dennis Jones 5^th Dan

DJ  Hi Steve, this is unusual, I’m asking the first question!  There’s a lot of talk at the moment about the right to defend yourself and your property and changing the law to make it harder on the criminal, what are your thoughts on this?

SR  It is unusual for you to ask the first question Den, you got in quick there!  In my opinion, the law is adequate as it stands, it states that you can use ‘reasonable force’ and it’s the interpretation of that term that needs a proper understanding.  Most people would find it reasonable that if someone breaks into your house and wants to steal from, or harm you and your family that they are causing the trouble and that they must therefore take responsibility as to what happens if the owner of the property catches them.  Any householder would be in fear of their life under such circumstances and could therefore quite reasonably end up using life threatening force!

DJ  In America they have the use of ‘lethal force’ if necessary.

SR  But that still comes under ‘reasonable force’, I don’t see a problem.  It’s purely a matter of interpretation.  If you are relaxed at home; say you are an old or an infirm person and a villain breaks into your property in the dark at the dead of night, you don’t know if he is armed and intends to kill you or your family, you might have to use ‘lethal force’ and under those circumstances most people would deem that as ‘reasonable’.  You can’t dictate and legislate terms and specifics, as every incident is different; the law simply needs to be interpreted by people who understand the reality that most of us have to live with nowadays.

DJ  It seems that many people feel that there’s one law for the police and one for the rest of us.  When a man had a table leg in a paper bag that they thought was a gun they shot him dead, when another had an air rifle, he too was shot dead, the police believe it’s reasonable given the circumstances, but what if it had been a member of the public doing the shooting?  Would it have been deemed reasonable?

SR  I can’t answer for the courts but I think that that most members of the public feel that it wouldn’t be termed as reasonable for them and they do feel that there is one rule for the police and authorities and one for them. 

DJ  I find it strange that our government will send the armed forces overseas and shoot to kill people that they deem as a threat to our safety and yet not allow us to defend ourselves in a similar manner at home!

SR There’s a lot of politics and history involved with firearms law… maybe we should deal with that later in a separate article. 

The problem appears to be all about statistics, as a martial arts teacher I feel that it starts at school.  We get children brought to our club who have been bullied at school and the teachers keep the bullied children in at playtimes and let the bullies out to play!  They then intimidate the bullied children further by intimating that the incidences are their fault because they don’t want to admit to bullying in their school and are afraid to deal with the bullying children or their parents!  The bullied children end up excluding themselves and changing schools because the teaching staff are unable to deal with the problem children and their families.  If the bullied children eventually hit back, they are severely punished because of the teachers’ fears!

All the ‘systems’ to deal with bullies are in place through a series of government ‘initiatives’ but the teaching staff won’t use them because they are afraid of getting a reputation of having a bullying problem and it looks bad on their statistics.  They are also frightened of having to deal with certain families in the area.

DJ  Very true…

SR  For those of us on the ‘front line’ in these deprived areas in Britain we KNOW crime has dramatically increased, because we have to deal with it every day.  Why do the national statistics not show it?  Try reporting a crime.  The immediate impression you get is that no one wants to know, if you do get a response the police seem to be more concerned with getting all the details of the person the crime was committed against or who is reporting it on their computer than finding the offender.  The result is that most people don’t bother reporting minor theft, damage, muggings, drug usage, dealing and intimidation. When the police deal with a problem they seem to want to put the crime in a ‘lesser’ category to make their statistics look good.  Often the victim is easier to intimidate into an agreement than the offender.  In this area most people don’t trust the police or the authorities and feel that they are likely to be victimised further by reporting crime.

DJ  The fact is that we wouldn’t bully anyone, steal anything, or wish harm upon anyone.  And yet even though I am capable of looking after myself, I am very careful in many areas particularly late at night and definitely do not feel safe.  I fear for my safety and that of my children.  I feel that the structure of our society is breaking down and the beneficiaries are those that have no regard for other people or their property.

On many occasions I have been outside a club, in the street at work, dealing with ‘nasty aggressive thugs’ and looking after the safety of innocent victims and working hard to protect them, the police arrive – and who do you think are the first people that the police threaten to arrest?  The doormen.  I haven’t sworn, hurt anyone, or threatened anyone, but it’s easier for the police to deal with us because they know that we will obey and are no threat to them but the offenders often continue to berate and injure others and get away with it!

It is my experience that at school, teachers are frightened of the older children.  They are frightened of the parents of the younger children and will therefore always, like the police, go for the line of least resistance rather than what is right. 

SR It’s instinctive!

DJ  Formerly it was the duty of every Englishman to bear arms and defend his country, the realm and his way of life, we have lost that.  If someone tried to bully, he got back what he gave out, we aren’t allowed to do that anymore.  The underlying truth is that the problem is never being dealt with as it should be. 

SR  The government just has a succession of knee jerk reactions and useless initiatives that have no follow up.  They now want to ban the carrying of all knife blades over 3 inches, the villains are really going to observe that!  

We get initiative after initiative, rule after rule, law after law and yet no one has the guts to make English law, based on the sense of reason, work.

DJ  …Gas and pepper sprays are banned, in fact they’re prohibited weapons, but it hasn’t worked, I’ve had people use them on me and it wasn’t the police!  Mind you Steve, I’ve been around when an officer panicked and started spraying everything around him, using it like fly spray!

SR  …Get your arms in the way and hold your breath! (laughs)

Bullies should not be allowed to get away with constantly ruining other peoples lives, not at school, work, at home or in the locality.  Government should give proper support to the public, law courts, police and security services.  The weakening of public resolve has done more harm to this country than anything else.  That’s where martial arts training is essential to teach people to stand up for themselves with an underlying ethos of good behaviour.

DJ  In the late 1930s Percy Longhurst’s book, ‘Jiu-Jitsu and other methods of self-defence’ he writes:

 “ There are two ways of meeting an enemy says Sir Francis Drake in ‘Westward Ho!’  One is to hit him first and say: “You touch me and I’ll do that again.”  The other is to wait until he hits you, and then say: “If you do that again I’ll hit you” – and the man who is suddenly accosted in a threatening manner by one or more individuals will do well to bear this advice in mind.”

Life doesn’t change much does it?  No one can predict the outcome of a ‘situation’, instinct takes over and the ‘Law’ tends to not be considered until later.

If you are in your late forties or older you won’t be running after a burglar, sprinting down the road to catch him, but if he’s trapped in the front room, what are you going to do?

If you hear someone in your house you can hide hoping they get what they want and go away quickly. You can confront them and instinctively ask ‘what are you doing!’ Or you can attack them with a weapon in hand because you believe they must have used a sharp tool to break in with. It’s your choice.  Fear takes over and whether you step back or push forward, the decision will probably be instinctive and all yours.

SR  Better to make the decision before the event.

Steve Rowe

Steve Rowe is a highly successful Martial Arts instructor - an International Neigong, Qigong and Tai Chi Teacher and an 8th Dan Karate with many other senior dan grades in other martial disciplines.

More Posts - Website

Follow Me: