Nov 14 Dennis Jones – Violence on the Door

This interview was conducted in May 2005

This interview was recorded in May 2005 

Steve Rowe talks to doorman and martial artist Dennis Jones.

SR  With 25 years experience ‘on the door’ and a lot of change occurring in the ‘trade’ at the moment, particularly with regard to ‘licencing’ doormen, I thought it would be beneficial this month if you could give some advice to people either thinking about working on the door or already doing the job.

DJ  I must confess that I’ve got mixed feelings about it.

SR  Bearing in mind that many of readers may be considering ‘testing’ their mettle and techniques ‘on the door’, or indeed some may already be doing so, what advice do you have for them?

DJ  I have to say that it’s not a nice job.  When I was young, I wanted to test my technique and received a ‘wake up’ call.  I guess I also have to admit that I knew it attracted the girls.  In the last quarter of a century though, the job has changed beyond belief.

When I first started, all that doormen talked about was courage and not ‘running away’ from situations and it was all about stopping the thugs. The job was very territorial and we took everything, the insults and abuse personally. But the glamour soon faded for me and it eventually became just a job.  The major problems were the violence and trouble with the police if you were really out of order !

Today the biggest concern is getting arrested. In the past a lot of police officers would turn up after an incident, look around, talk to a few people and then were quite prepared to come to the conclusion that the thug got what he deserved!

My first bit of advice is that if you are thinking about working on the door – forget about it.  Not only have you got to deal with the violence, but you’ve also got to deal with the possibility of being arrested every time you have to deal with a situation.

One of my friends has a case going through the courts at the moment on a charge of ‘common assault’, having dealt with a situation in a manner that any normal person would construe as ‘reasonable’ he now has all the legal hassle to deal with as well.  As a doorman I have been attacked many times, even been sprayed with tear gas! The police often get the offenders and yet don’t prosecute them. A lot of police seem to think that we deserve what ever comes our way. I even had one tell me: ‘…there’s nothing we can do; doing your job you expect to get hurt!’  From my personal experience, it seems there’s one rule for the public and another for the doormen.  So I think that’s the main reason why doorman don’t generally give statements or attend court for the police.

In the past, if we saw someone in trouble outside we’d help them, now….  (sighs) it’s much better to leave it, because the doormen are the first people the police are likely to go for.

SR  That’s a bit harsh though isn’t it?

DJ  You asked for my honest advice…  If you get into any situation even a minor one, you are likely to have every action investigated, picked to pieces, be arrested and investigated by the police and then scrutinised by the SIA (the new security authority), who seem to want to introduce a professional code of conduct on the cheap.

Remember though if you get a conviction, you won’t be able to work on the doors again.  If you see violence, call the police and step back, let them deal with it even if they do take ages to get there.  Then you’ll always have a job.

SR  That’s not moral though is it?

DJ  It’s the way everything’s going, morality doesn’t come into it now. It’s about survival and you won’t be arrested for doing nothing.  The job’s not worth the risk anymore and it’s not just the risk of injury but the risk of arrest. 

SR  The irony is that to be a martial arts instructor you have to pass an enhanced criminal record board check.  If you ‘test’ yourself on the door and get arrested and convicted, you might lose your martial art club and the ability to teach as well!

DJ  Good point Steve, and you have pass a CRB check to become a doorman as well!

SR  Surely that will eliminate the most experienced people that have worked the doors for years!

DJ  Exactly!  When you are in the midst of a ‘situation’, being attacked or trying to stop trouble in a situation where people can be fighting with weapons like knuckle-dusters and broken bottles, it’s not a vicar you’d want to be asking to come and help you!  You want someone with guts and experience – and a lot of these guys have criminal convictions because, in the past, they have been involved in fights. It’s easy to get a criminal record when you’re a doorman. Interestingly, the police won’t be there but will probably turn up after it’s over and then pick up the pieces and arrest you.

In my opinion the new rules preclude the people that you need to do the job.

SR  The days of having the door ‘looked after’ by a name have gone.

DJ  Yes and no…how can you stop a ‘name’ sitting in a pub having a drink! Anyway the new type of doorman will be a ‘a part of the police family’ he won’t get involved for fear of being arrested and won’t have the necessary experience of dealing with violence. He’ll have to ‘do nothing’ even if innocent people are getting hurt. 

SR  Are you saying that the experienced doormen will find the job untenable with the new restrictions?

DJ  Yes.  They’re leaving.  If you get into trouble outside a nightclub and possibly (in the future) inside the club there won’t be any help because you can’t be arrested for doing nothing.  The ‘do gooders’, the people I call the ‘tree hugging yoghurt eaters’, who are putting these rules together will get everything they deserve.  Sometimes (controlled) violence has got to be used – it’s an unpalatable fact of life. Being nice is good and often works but not all of the time!

If I wasn’t working on a Saturday night and at 11pm you asked me to go down to the Chinese with you for a take away, I’d rather stay in and eat bread and jam. It’s too rough out there and I don’t need the trouble – especially with the police.

SR  (Laughs)  ‘Tree hugging yoghurt eaters?’ where did that come from?  But I think we get your drift and I’m sure you’ve got a story to highlight this…

DJ  Yes, here’s one…

A few years ago I was running a nightclub door. A police inspector who was the licensing officer was giving the club a hard time about its drink licence – saying there was too many fights and so on. I was standing on the door quite fed up with it all.  About 6 guys were fighting in the street and one ended up getting a real kicking.  A friend of his came running over to me and told me to go and help him, I said no because of all the trouble we’d had with this police inspector and watched him take some real punishment. He then shouted at me to help his mate. I said, “he ain’t my friend; you’re his mate, you go and help him.” When it was all over he and another guy went over to their unconscious friend, who was really badly hurt and carried him back to the club. This guy then told me to go and get first aid for him and I said no.  He said the Health and Safety law stated that I had to help and I said on the contrary, I wasn’t obliged to do anything. I also told him it was his fight, that he and his friends started it and that it was his problem. He then screamed at me saying that I didn’t’ care. I told him that he was right.

When the police arrived I said to him “see the back seat of that car, that’s got my name on it.  Every time the doorman go out and ‘help’ we end up with loads of grief from the police. And I ain’t getting arrested for you.  When the police got out they called an ambulance and the guy called a policeman over and pointing at me said, “officer, arrest that man – he did nothing!”

The officer said, “Thanks for not getting involved”.  I did nothing, I walked away and was able to go home that night free from the worry of getting arrested, interviewed, charged and up before the courts.

If doormen want to remain in their jobs in the future – then it’s better for them that they significantly change their role and do nothing where an old fashioned ‘bouncer’ might have acted and saved someone from a lot of injury.

SR  Thanks Dennis.

Steve Rowe

Steve Rowe is a highly successful Martial Arts instructor - an International Neigong, Qigong and Tai Chi Teacher and an 8th Dan Karate with many other senior dan grades in other martial disciplines.

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