Nov 16 Interview John Gilliland in 2004

This interview was recorded in 2004.

John calls a spade a spade.  If you have a sensitive nature you need to gird your loins to be in his presence.  I would consider that to be one of his qualities, I can’t abide devious people and you always know where you stand with him.  He has been an essential part of the structure of the English Karate Governing Body and it’s Treasurer since 1994.  He has done a sterling job with the finances and performed many other functions that others hadn’t the time to do skilfully keeping many “balls in the air” at the same time!

John started training in 1966 in Kilmarnock, Scotland and gained his Shodan in Japan in 1971.  He is a BKF Referee & Kata Judge, an EKGB Referee & Kata Judge, and apart from his 6^th Dan in Shotokan Karate, holds a 3rd Dan in Judo and 6th Dan in Jujitsu.

20 years in the Army has given him a wealth of experience not only in a variety of Martial Arts all over the world, but also in life itself.  John is yet another example of why membership of the EKGB gives you the opportunity to tap into the wealth of experience provided by so many of the Founding Fathers of English Karate.

John has trained under several fine Sensei’s such as Hirokazu Kanazawa, Akio Nagai, Hideo Ochi, Seiji Sugimoto, Keijo Abe, Tomiko Mitsuoka, Haruo Ueda,  Tommy Morris and Davie Coulter.

John is Chief Instructor to his own federation, Gakushuin Karate, formed in 1977. Gakushuin joined the EKGB directly in 1998 and now have clubs all over the world, predominantly within British Army establishments.

SR  Hi John, How did you become interested in the Martial Arts?

JG  I was born and brought up in Kilmarnock in Scotland, a typical upbringing really; when I was 8 yrs old, a friend of mine introduced me to the local Judo club.   When I first arrived there I noticed everyone was wearing these funny pyjamas and Eddie Ainsworth had just returned from the 1964 Olympics, so he was the “mover and shaker” of the time in Judo, in our area.

SR  Where was that?

JG  It was the Clurankwai Judo Club.  Whilst training there, one of the Brown Belts, a guy called John Kerr would finish the Judo classes on a Saturday and go straight into a Karate class.  This looked far more exciting than Judo!  People were kicking, punching screaming and shouting…  Initially he wouldn’t take any kids, so I had to continue practising Judo for several more years until I became a higher grade and also started practising Atemi Jitsu.  John then relented and as he had started taking on 14yr olds took me on at 10yrs old because of my grade and because I was big for my age.

SR  What was the training like?

JG  To be honest it was nearly all physical fitness doing all the exercises that are banned nowadays, like bunny hops, push ups, sit ups, leopard crawl and stretching – and about 15 minutes Karate!  For years I thought that the only Kata in Karate were the five Pinans! 

SR  What style was that?

JG  Shukokai, that’s all there was at the time.  There was a Shotokan club down in Ayr in the late ‘60’s early 70’s but that’s about all.  In ’71 we had the explosion that was Bruce Lee….”Fist of Fury” came on at the local cinema and suddenly we went from 30 people training to over 200!  I continued training in Shukokai until I reached Brown Belt grade and then joined the army in 1974.  I did my basic training and then started to be posted overseas with Para Squadron.  At that time the British army was being posted all over the World.  I arrived at my unit on Friday and on Monday I was on a plane to Africa!  I slept on the tarmac at Brize Norton and then 13 hours later I was sweltering in over 40 degrees!

SR  What did the Army do for you?

JG  It opened my eyes to the World and the Martial Arts!  I was able to travel extensively and train with a lot of different people.  I had by that time trained with Kanazawa and Suzuki Sensei’s but I was still not really aware of different “styles”.  The Japanese Instructors of the time had language and communication problems and we often ended up getting a “battering” as a result of their frustration at our lack of ability to understand what they wanted, but it did help me understand that everyone was different and I then had no problem training in different ways.

SR When did you start in Shotokan?

JG  When I joined the Army.  I had thought that Shukokai was the “Bees Knees” but actually found that Shotokan suited my body type better.  I did try Wado for a while when I was stationed at Maidstone here in Kent with Peter Jeffords group, but I just couldn’t get on with it. 

SR  In which countries were you stationed?

JG  Gambia, Senegal, South Africa, America, Italy, France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Norway, Brunei and Hong Kong.  I either went for a short visit of a few weeks, for six months or two years, although I was in Germany for 12 years.  This is where most of my “modern” training took place from 1980 through to 1991.

SR  Who was that with?

JG  That was with the Ochi Sensei, in Germany they have a regional structure, it was very different to the Association structure I was used to in the UK!  However, it did help me to train in many of the places that I was stationed.  It was at that time that I started to open clubs myself, Germany is such a vast country that it was usual to travel 200 miles just to attend a training session!  I was teaching soldiers Karate and Judo to the children.

SR So you established a network of clubs in Germany?

JG  Yes; and in Cyprus, Hong Kong, Brunei, Scotland and England!  The Hong Kong clubs are now shut but the others are still going.  That was the start of Gakushuin.

SR  How did you get involved with Toyakwai?

JG  Previous to Toyakwai I was with the AMA, but felt that I needed to be in a Shotokan organisation to continue with my personal development.  I was stationed in the UK in Kent and found that Toyakwai were close enough to train with and I stayed with them for 10 years.  That was where I met Rob Curtis and in ’91 we formed Ryoshin with Sugimoto Sensei as Technical Director.

SR  Where did Sugimoto come from?

JG  Initially he was Kanazawa’s student and when Kasuya left Kanazawa he went with him; he then left the World Shotokan Karate Association and just started training on his own in SKI clubs, we approached him and he agreed to be our Technical Director.

SR  You then eventually joined the EKGB in your own right?

JG  That’s right in ’96 we had an amicable split and went our own way.  Many people found it strange that the Chief Instructor would resign from his own Association but Rob and myself just wanted to go different ways; and as it was a democratic Association it was the easiest way.  Gakushuin then joined the English Karate Governing Body in it’s own right.

SR  How did you get involved with the politics of the EKGB?

JG  Rob Curtis and I turned up at an EKGB meeting where concerns were being raised about the finances and I suggested that they needed an internal auditor to ensure that the processes that were in place were actually working.  The Council accepted that asked me to be the auditor.   As I had trained to be an accountant in the Army I didn’t find this too difficult and when I produced the report to Council found myself voted into the vacant post as Treasurer.

SR  What year was that?

JG  At the end of 1994. 

SR  How have you found the last 9 years?

JG  I think I’m lucky because everyone seems to appreciate the work that I do.  I’ve been re-elected each year unopposed, so they obviously like what I do and financially, the EKGB is healthy.

SR  You’ve been instrumental in the incorporation of the EKGB, what are your thoughts on it?

JG  I’ve fought for incorporation ever since I took over as Treasurer. The processes and administration are quite clear and it ensures that we are open and transparent.  The Directors are also bound by company law to do everything correctly.

SR  What do you feel about the future of the EKGB?

JG  The future has never looked better.  Our structure and processes have never been better.  Our biggest failing is that we don’t inform the membership of what is actually going on.  A tremendous amount of work has taken place over the past couple of years and although we may explain it to the Association Representatives, it often doesn’t filter down to the Club Instructors.  I think we need to “close the loop” and focus far more on keeping the membership informed.

The Governing Body has far more potential to be the entity that looks after it’s membership and more importantly, able to support them.  We are not in the business of looking after the club members, but to service the Associations and furnish them with the information and resources that they require to function effectively. 

SR  How do you see the future?

JG  It looks very good.  Incorporation has been a paradigm shift and has involved a LOT of work for everyone.  We are setting the standards for Karate nationally and have undertaken a huge workload in a short period of time.  The results of all this work will start to show in 2004 and it will make training in Karate in England a far safer activity in any club that has the EKGB kitemark.

SR  What about for you personally?

JG  I have to decide where I’m going, I’m building an IT company, I’m a Director of the EKGB  and Chief Instructor to the Gakushuin Association, all of which have a pull on my time.  I enjoy doing a good job and realise that change is inevitable, I’m hoping that my EKGB responsibilities will lessen as the systems in place start to work, physically I have to adjust my training according to my age and health, but at the moment I’m happy to continue as I am and see where the road leads me!

SR  Thank you for your time John. 

JG  Thank you Steve.

Steve Rowe

Steve Rowe is a highly successful Martial Arts instructor - an International Neigong, Qigong and Tai Chi Teacher and an 8th Dan Karate with many other senior dan grades in other martial disciplines.

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